In this episode of The Roots Podcast by 12 Oaks, host Melissa Labor, Chief People Officer, is joined by Steve Nguyen, Learning and Development Director to explore how intentional leadership, thoughtful technology adoption, and a culture of continuous learning drive success at 12 Oaks. Steve shares insights on the importance of unlearning outdated habits and embracing change, while Melissa highlights the company’s commitment to aligning initiatives with its mission to be trusted, best-in-class partners. Packed with actionable takeaways, this episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about leadership and organizational development.
Intro 00:00
You’re listening to The Roots Podcast by 12 Oaks, where we’ll be joined by industry leaders to discuss and highlight the character, competency and care that is required to successfully manage senior living portfolios.
Melissa 00:14
Welcome to this edition of the Roots Podcast by 12 Oaks Senior Living. I am joined today by Steve Nguyen. He is our Director of Learning and Development, and I have really been looking forward to this conversation with you, Steve. What I would love for you to do is give our listeners and those that are watching us a little insight into who Steve is, on your experience, your background, and your accomplished education endeavors as well.
Steve 00:42
I’m not sure if this podcast this long enough for us to cover my life story, but I will certainly try. So I actually started out in mental health counseling as a counselor, believe it or not, although my wife and daughter would beg to differ and say that I should have been the client. And I think just financial necessity, and looking at, I think both how challenging it is to be a mental health counselor and also, just the work that it requires. It just made me really pause and think about my life. I’ve spent most of my life here in the US, and I left the Dallas area for about three years. I worked overseas in the school system. And then when my wife and I, my wife was Japanese, when we returned to the US in summer of 2007, I had talked to her about maybe going back to school and making a career pivot. So all of that led to me going back to school, getting my PhD in Iowa psychology, which is really just the study of people, the workplace, and the environment, and what motivates and challenges them. So, long story short, if it wasn’t for that pivot, I wouldn’t be here today getting this chance to be interviewed by Melissa. So, it’s just been an incredible experience. And then, of course, that led to opportunities to work for various companies from, Optum, which is, United Healthcare Group, Service King, which is, an auto collision repair company and is now called Crest Champions. And then I worked for Lennox, which is the HVAC company. I also teach part time for Southern Methodist University. So it’s been an experience.
Melissa 02:24
So you don’t ever sleep, do you? You’ve always got so many things going on. I know you don’t, because I have definitely had emails from you at all kinds of crazy hours, too. So not only are you a professor and you work so much here and add so much value, you also are a lifelong learner, which means you’re constantly consuming information as well.
Steve 02:49
I am. I do sleep Melissa, and to be fair, I know you as my boss. I think you also don’t sleep because in order for you to know that I’m emailing you back, you’re responding, so there we go.
Melissa 03:00
Yeah, perhaps that’s true
Steve 03:01
And I think to what you’re saying Melisssa about being a lifelong learner, I think it’s so important. I’ve met so many people. And especially the folks who are highly educated, college educated, getting their master’s or PhD. And I think sometimes if the willingness is not there, they are actually really, really hard to help train and educate because they’re not allowing themselves to learn. They’re not allowing themselves to be lifelong learners.
Melissa 03:29
Well, we definitely share that love of learning and growing and love new things. And so speaking of that, you’ve been here now right at a year. So you did something new, you leaped out and said, I’m going to try senior living and, I’d love to get your perspectives on what your first year has been like.
Steve 03:47
It’s been such an incredible experience. And for the listeners who may not know this. So when Melissa interviewed me and reached out to me, about a year ago. So in fact, in about 3 or 4 days, it’ll be exactly a year that I’ve been here. So it’s been amazing. I blink and it’s a year. But when Melissa and I first talked, one of the things that was so paramount for me, is that the company practices what it preaches, practices the values that typically you see them plastering all over the wall. And so when I came in to interview and I saw the 12 Oaks values of character, competency, stewardship, and servanthood, obviously, I was thinking, do they actually practice what’s here on the wall? And it is absolutely incredible that the people walk the talk here. I love it.
Melissa 04:38
I’m so glad to hear that. We try to infuse those values in everything that we do. And that is something that is your responsibility with the learning and development function that we definitely infuse those values and our thematic goals and all of those things through the programs and the initiatives as well. So how have you seen those values show up in some of the programs and initiatives you’ve witnessed or been a part of this last year?
Steve 05:09
So that’s a really good question. I think one of the things that certainly you and I talk about a lot, but, we don’t create training or learning initiatives, just in a vacuum. We always consult, and get buy in certainly in the support from the executive committee, of course, you’re one of the members. And then to get buy in from all levels throughout the organization, whether it’s the regional vice presidents or RVP’s, on down to the executive directors or ED’s and RCD’s our resident care directors. I think any time that we do, and create any sort of training, we want to make sure that 1) we’re honoring the things that our folks need, and we want to be good servants of the things that the in terms of serving others, we don’t want to just say here, go do this. This is the directive from us. We never want that to be the case. And obviously, there’s certain things like compliance that we do have to get folks to take and abide by just because of the state’s requirement. But, regarding other things, we always want to encourage them to reach beyond, to grow, to develop as our president, Greg would put it to summit. So, for us, that’s so paramount because it’s not something that we want to create training out of thin air. We certainly want to create training that parallels or echoes the same things that our learners, and our folks in the communities, are requesting.
Melissa 06:41
And that leads right into my next question for you: what are they requesting, and what have you learned from people that you’ve talked to, and what avenues have you used to understand and learn what the needs and desires are?
Steve 06:55
One of the things that our learners may not know is that Melissa is also very humble. The thing that she’s giving me too much credit for is in terms of how I find out or learn about the things that our learners need is thanks to Melissa, my boss, as well as our other HR partners and teammates. We send out a lot of surveys after any of the training programs that we have, whether it’s, impact for the corporate office, impact for our executive directors and resident care directors, whether it’s at trifecta, there’s always some sort of survey that Melissa is very good about sending out. And then, in addition to those surveys, we talk to folks, whether it’s through email, whether it’s through Microsoft Teams or by phone or in person to find out, hey, what do you think about this training? Does this seem to land with the things that you’re asking for? Does it make sense? Where is it lacking? So we’re always trying to poke holes in it, not to critique it just for critiquing sake, but we’re always trying to improve on things, so making sure that our fingers are on the pulse.
Melissa 08:02
Yeah, absolutely. We don’t want to be putting contents or learning out to anybody that is like why, we don’t want them to ever question why in the world are we going through this training?
Steve 08:14
There’s nothing worse than creating things that no one’s actually using.
Melissa 08:19
Talk about hitting your heart as a learning and development person. That’s kind of painful to do that. You mentioned the impact program and trifecta. So why don’t we start with impact and you give your first of all your perceptions of impact. Because when you first came in, you sat through one of those. And then now that is in part of your overall ownership and responsibility. What’s the goal and the plan for 2025?
Steve 08:45
Impact, with 12 Oaks actually started, it was a program that was started in 2017, by our CEO, Dick Blaylock. And then and also with Aaron Catoe, our senior VP of operations. And initially when it started, it was more of a conference style. And there were breakout sessions. Over the years, it’s evolved into something that’s more hands on, more practical. And so the foundational goal for impact has always remained the same. I think we’ve, by we, I mean Melissa, myself, and some of the other senior leaders, we’re constantly working to ensure that the things that our audience members are needing. So we’re looking at executive directors and resident care directors. And so more and more, they’re asking in the surveys that we’ve talked to, and received from them. So many of them have been asking for practical hands on tips and tools, things that they can take away and put in their back pocket for certain situations. For example, when we talk about coaching, you know, we often say, well, why don’t you coach her or why don’t you coach him? But, I bet money that if you stop somebody in the hallway and you ask them 1) define what coaching is. Most people can’t tell you. And 2) explain or walk me through what does coaching look like or sound like? I mean, how does that work? Like, if you were coaching me, what would that look like? And most people also can’t tell you that either. So what we’re finding out and again, this is not something that’s just with 12 Oaks. I’ve seen this at other organizations as well. So and Melissa knows this really well, is I try to make things really practical. It’s one of my pet peeves when we are throwing so much content, so much information at people, it overwhelms them. So what we have to do is chunk that information, but also make it practical in a way that’s easy for them to digest and receive. But also, and more importantly, when they go back to wherever they work, right. So we have communities all over the US. We got them in Massachusetts, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Arizona, and most of them are in Texas. So they’re not here based in the Dallas area. We’ve got a few, but when they go back to their communities, where they live and work and hopefully where the residents are thriving, what do they do when there’s conflict? How do they mediate those? What does that look like? And more importantly, what does that sound like when you’re in the heat of the moment when temperatures are high, when emotions are high, what do you do? And most people panic. And so we put folks through scenarios, get them to practice these things so that they become more and more comfortable. So that’s the step. That’s the evolution of impact that, the step that we’re taking for this year is taking and tailoring the things that, have been working with impact and this just operationalizing it and making it to where our folks out in the community can actually use some of these concepts that we teach: emotional intelligence, conflict management, communication, coaching. What exactly do these things look and sound like step by step?
Melissa 11:56
That’s exciting. It’s going to be nice to see that come to fruition, since we’ve had so many people give feedback and have said, “Have you ever thought about this piece, this practical piece?” So it’ll be great to see that occur. One of the things about impact that is core and foundational is that whole relational piece too. And so we certainly are not losing that. It’s an addition and evolution from that transformational relational component.
Steve 12:23
I really like what you said there, Melissa, about the relational part, because that’s absolutely integral to what we do and who we are here at 12 Oaks, because we certainly don’t want to throw everything out. I mean, we absolutely want to keep the things that are working and working well. We just want to fine tune and tweak it and provide additional, I guess, value-add or resources for the folks and the leaders in the communities so that they can use these things. Because again, to your point, we’re not creating something just out of thin air and or in a vacuum and saying, well, Melissa and Steve just thought about these things and we’re just going to create them. It’s actually taken almost a year’s worth. In fact, I think more, of collecting feedback, of really ensuring that we’re on par with what our folks are asking for. So it’s been very deliberate. It’s been very methodical in rolling this out.
Melissa 13:19
One of the other great training avenues that we have throughout the year is our trifecta. And that’s conference-like training. And you had such an impact last year during that session that I wanted to make sure we had an opportunity for you to describe what you actually covered and how that has impacted our executive directors, resident care directors, sales directors and even residents.
Steve 13:48
I was just really privileged to be able to, and I think it was like 125 people, which included our executive directors our resident care directors our sales directors. And then we had senior leadership here at the Home Office. So about 125 or so individuals. And I just had a lot of incredible feedback. And so I presented on a session call DISC. DISC is just behavioral assessment tools, which looks at a person’s personality through four major buckets if you will: dominance, influence, steadiness and whether or not they’re conscientious. Most of us are a blend of these types, it’s not one or the other. Looking at where we tend to lean, our tendencies, it reveals and how we typically respond to certain situations, how we communicate and interact with others. Getting back to what you had alluded to earlier, Melissa, I think what worked, and and the reason why I think I received that positive feedback, really, wasn’t anything I did, per se. It’s just I think I stayed on point with what we’ve been working on, which is very much providing the things that people have been asking for: the practical tips and tools. So, a lot of times we’ll take personality assessments, Myers-Briggs, DISC, other things like that, and people will leave a debriefing session and they’ll be like, well, that was great but now what do I do?
Melissa 15:13
How do I use it? Right.
Steve 15:14
I always try to put myself in the shoes of the learner of, if I’m not getting this, there’s something really wrong. And so, I was fortunate enough that, by being able to put myself in their shoes to distill the information in a way and package it in a way that was very well received. And so when they did return to their communities, they were able to use, and leverage, depending on their style of how to interact with someone with a dominant personality or someone with a more influencing style. I think it took not just me, but certainly you and so many other folks involved to help continue to support and encourage and empower our leaders, to make these things work. So thank you.
Melissa 15:57
Well, thank you for doing such a great job with that. We had lots of feedback that just said, Steve. Steve was the best part of the conference. And so it was fun to see that feedback as well. And the impact that it had with our executive directors and others on that trifecta team was that they told us that they were using it with their teams, or they asked you, hey, how can I use this with my team? And then it started showing up in the way they interacted with their residents, too. So that’s that ultimate touch that we hope from a learning and development side of what we’re doing does show in the results and those that we may not see all the time.
Steve 16:37
Oh, absolutely Melissa. And you know, we talk about this all the time. In fact, I think I interrupt you so much that you’re not able to do your own work because you’re so great at interacting and empowering our team and encouraging us and coaching us. And so your door is always open. Melissa and I talk so much about not creating something just for training or learning development sake. We certainly want to create something that’s useful, but just or equally as important, we want to create something that’s useful, but that can also be practical because I think one of the other pet peeves of mine is that yeah, it’s useful, but if no one knows how to use it, then that kind of defeats the purpose of its usefulness, right? And so in one of my previous jobs, the company spent thousands of dollars on one of the Korn Ferry, I think it was the K, and it was one of those interviewing guides. It was extremely complicated. It was so convoluted that after they spent thousands of dollars, no one knew how to use it. So they wasted all of that money. They trained the folks who got certified, but they were not able to disseminate that information and train and work with the folks that needed that information most. And so we would never want that to happen. And one of the things, Melissa, getting back to your original question about my impression about 12 Oaks is just I love how as a company, we’re very, very thoughtful about the things that we’re rolling out, whether it’s we’re learning L&D initiatives, whether it’s something else with recruiting, whether it’s something with operations. We are very thoughtful, we’re not perfect, but we’re very thoughtful. We always check in with the folks who are receiving these initiatives to see hey, does this land with what you’re looking for? And so I think that’s something that I really appreciate, one of the things that I really appreciate about 12 Oaks.
Melissa 18:37
I’m glad to hear that. It is an intentionality of making sure that people can absorb things and can actually handle that they have the resources and can actually meet the demands of what particular role is. And also if it is serving residents or if it is serving other partners, which is our goal, obviously, is to be best in class as trusted partners, and we have to make sure that we are thinking, like you said before, like we’re stepping in someone’s shoes to know what it might look like for them, too. So I’m glad you brought that up.
L&D and training and development can look lots of different ways. We’ve talked about how we have sessions for impact and then the trifecta conference- like. There’s lots of other things going on in technology. So I was hoping you could share some of the things that we are doing to embrace technology and help our learners from that perspective.
Steve 19:31
One of the things that certainly, Melissa, you and I talk about this a lot too, but one of the things that I never want to do is just to use technology, just for technology’s sake. I see this, like people chasing, especially HR departments will chase the shiny objects and they’ll use AI, they’ll use some sort of cool software, and they think, well, this is great. And I’ve certainly been a part of teams that have done that. And then at the end of the day, nobody uses it or no one knows how to train someone to use it. And then the folks that you’re training will end up being confused. And so the other thing that, again, going back to, what I said earlier about being really intentional, what you said about being intentional, so we have Paycom learning as part of Paycom. It’s our learning management system. And although it’s not a perfect system, but I think we’ve been pretty good about leveraging its capabilities. And so when new employees, whether they’re working in the communities: a cook, somebody in housekeeping, it could be a leader in one of the communities, or it could be here in the Home Office. So when we have them on board, we have them take these online courses, e-learning courses through Paycom learning. In addition to Paycom learning, we also do virtual live training through Microsoft Teams. And sometimes we just hop on a call and actually walk people through certain things we’ve done that. With these kind of podcast trainings where we’re doing that as well. And then, Melissa and I, we’re also looking at screen recording softwares that we can continue to enhance, record and produce these kinds of podcasts and trainings because I think for a small company, I think we’re kind of firing on all cylinders. As I’ve always said, Melissa, we’re never bored. It is never boring here, that’s for sure. If you’re bored there’s something really wrong there. So it’s never boring. We’re always up to something. And I love that we’re up to something that’s good. We’re always thinking of better ways to improve on our recipe, if you will. And of course, we’re not perfect. We constantly are open to suggestions and feedback, and we do get them. That’s the other thing that I really appreciate about 12 Oaks. And certainly we have ED’s RCD’s, RVP’s who are not shy about sharing their feedback to us. And I love that because if you go back, we can’t improve, right? So, please continue to give us feedback. Let us know if something isn’t working, and if you don’t see it changing right away, it doesn’t mean that it’s not changing. It just means that we’re thinking or working through that process behind the scenes.
Melissa 22:14
Very true. Things don’t happen as quick as we would like them to sometimes. We did actually have a technology that moved fairly quickly that was for our corporate office this year, and you were integral to that. You want to explain a little bit of what we rolled out and then we’re actually still in the middle of part of it.
Steve 22:31
So, thanks to Melissa and the other executive committee members who supported, this is a program called Lattice. It’s a performance management platform. And really, in a nutshell, it is a place to house all of the individual development plans, our performance reviews, our one-on-one meetings, goal setting, things like that. And so oftentimes when people will do performance management, which really is, a way to set up goals, ensuring continuous coaching and feedback, performance appraisals, reviews, development planning. So that’s what I mean when I talk about, performance management. But typically when that happens in any organization, there’s either paper, pencil, there’s post-it notes, the things. And when it’s just scattered all over and, so before Lattice, we didn’t have anything electronic that we wanted to use. And so we were very, again, very intentional, very, deliberate about vetting through multiple vendors to ensure that Lattice was not only the right tool, but the right tool for us. So I really appreciate that. And then we are just wrapping up the performance reviews, and we’re just in the middle now of our individual development plan. So it’s been very well received. Again, thanks to Melissa, and just the folks that have been a part of it, just participating in it.
Melissa 23:57
It’s really great to hear the feedback from people just through the review process. Thank you so much for having an easy system to use and then setting something up that makes it easy for me to have a conversation with my manager about that as well. And it really speaks to the whole making sure that people are known and that they matter, and that is a part of it. And then this very next step of the individual development plan is about what are you looking forward to and what can we do to help support your growth and your development, which I’m sure we will get lots of ideas that we get to start working on from a learning and development perspective when that finishes.
Steve 24:40
I have talked about this so often, but one of the things that I will share with people is: by rolling out Lattice or whatever it is that we’re using, we want to make sure that it’s part of people’s workflow and not getting in the way of their workflow. So, we know that is not always possible, but as much as possible, what we try to do is we try to integrate, we try to time the rollout of these trainings, of these initiatives. And it’s not perfect, it’s not always possible to avoid any sort of scheduling conflict. But I think by and large, we do a pretty decent job, and I think a pretty good job of ensuring that when we’re rolling things out, it’s very thoughtfully done, the timing of it. And as Dick, our CEO says if we don’t hit the deadline by whatever date, it’s okay. It’s ensuring that our folks are actually doing what they’re supposed to be doing in terms of taking the time to really fill these forms out. Like for example, with Lattice, instead of just using it as a check the box. And so I really love that founders dad and you know Dick’s father in the family truly practicing the things that the values that they’re always espousing. So that meant a lot to me.
Melissa 25:58
That’s wonderful. I’m glad that you felt that. I’ve been fortunate enough to experience it,s o bringing someone in who has been here for just a year. It’s great that you’re still feeling and experiencing that as well.
So as we begin to wrap up here, last question for you, lifelong learner, is what is the most recent book or article that you’ve read or consumed that has really had an impact on you?
Steve 26:23
So this book isn’t that recent, and it wasn’t the last book that I read, but it’s really memorable and the book is called Think Again by Adam Grant. And some of you may know Adam Grant is this, he’s bald, by the way he looks great without hair. I wish I could look like him. That’s a different conversation. And so Adam Grant is this organizational psychologist. He’s written some well-known books like Give and Take and the book Think Again, really the the quick summary is, sometimes in life, the best thing to do is to either think again or unlearn the things that we’ve been taught or learned.
And one of the, a very tragic story, but such a memorable story, is where a bunch of firefighters died putting out a fire. And because firefighters were taught, and again, I’m not doing the story justice by summarizing in my own words, but, so the story is that had the firefighters threw away their axes and all the heavy equipment that they typically carry, which I know probably most likely weighs more than me, if they had tossed those things aside and just made a beeline for safety, the fire investigators concluded that most likely they would have survived. But because of their ingrained, training and learning, they ran with all the heavy equipment attached to them. So they were very slow in moving away from the fire. And tragically, they didn’t survive. So the story that Adam wants us to learn and certainly it’s memorable for me, and it’s such a sad story, but it really speaks to how we have to unlearn sometimes the things that for a long time that’s been ingrained in us, right? I know I’ve shared this with some people with this before, but some of the students or folks in my training sessions, some of the ones who are the hardest to train are the ones who come into learning, thinking they don’t need to be taught. Everybody needs to learn something. I have to do something all the time. I know Melissa, you’re a lifelong learner, and if you’re not open to being taught to being learned, I don’t care if you’re 95 or 190, you still need to be taught. And so I think that any time we are entrenched in our way of thinking, we are denying ourselves of additional learning, but also additional growth, right? Because we’re saying, you know what? I don’t need to grow. I don’t need to learn anymore. I actually had someone say that. Someone who reported to me years ago say, no, I don’t need training. I’m like, oh, wow, you work in HR and you don’t need training. I didn’t know what to say to that because everybody needs learning and training and growth and development. And so, it’s not to say that you have to force these things on yourself, but you have to allow yourself room to grow, unlearn and change some of the things that maybe you’ve adopted years ago or months ago that isn’t working for you now, that may not fit or sit well with your new mindset or your new way of looking at things. So that book, even though that was a few years ago, that was such a memorable story, about just that tragic fate of the firefighters.
Melissa 29:45
I’m glad you shared that because it’s a good way for us to end here, too, because we are an evolving organization. We are continually striving to be the best in class partners, and we’re making sure that we are sustainable and we’re collaborating together, and being able to be nimble and move when we maybe think, oh gosh, is it the right time to do it? Or I’ve always done it this way and really saying it’s okay. It really is good to learn and evolve and you help the organization and you help your people, which is certainly what we are here for and what drives both of us and motivates us, so thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you for this time. This is fun to have a conversation with you.
Steve 30:32
Thank you Melissa.
Melissa 30:33
I appreciate it. And I know that our listeners and viewers will also enjoy it.
Outro
We hope you enjoyed this episode of The Roots podcast by 12 Oaks. Get connected with us on social media and at 12oaks.com.